“A Philosopher’s Fire Crate.” Antoine Larochette, Montréal, QC, Canada, 25 October 2016.

“I see music as a language. Before I saw it as a thing. When I go to a show, I look at the person and I’m like, ‘what are you trying to tell me? What’s your story?’ But it’s deep because you can do it through rhythms and through melodies and it’s a really complex language."

IT ALL STARTED WHEN...

What can I say about Antoine (who goes by DJ Cosmo when he’s on the decks)? He oozes kindness and humility, despite his unbridled talent. He is a Red Bull Thre3tyle DJ Champion. He can get any dance floor live. He tours around the world with rapper Azealia Banks, from the stage at Coachella all the way to an intimate performance at Karl Lagerfeld’s house for his birthday. This guy definitely conjures up some sorcery on the turntables.

I first met Antoine through the weekly GET NICE Fridays at Blizzarts on Montréal's main street (aka Rue Saint Laurent) in the Plateau. When we launched Hip Hop Karaoke at Le Belmont back in 2011, bringing the concept to La Belle Province, we were stoked to have Cosmo come on as our official DJ, not only supporting each participating MC with instrumentals but also keeping the crowd hyped in-between sets with his stellar party sense and killer technique on the decks. Over the years, we’ve been lucky to develop a friendship with Antoine and his lovely partner, Bonnie, and we were so touched when he agreed to DJ a set at our wedding last year over the Easter Long weekend — a Good Friday, our own spin on GET NICE. He turned up the funk and soul classics from James Brown to get everyone on the dance floor, and closed it out with UGK’s “International Players’ Anthem (I Choose You),” which still remains one of my favourite memories of the entire night.

Catch him currently at his Montréal residency at Santos and doing remix work for R&B artist Maya Killtron.

Antoine DJing a set at our wedding last March at the Ace Hotel & Swim Club in Palm Springs, CA. Photo by Kara Mercer.

Antoine and I hopped on the phone in October, and here’s the edit — be forewarned, it's a long one. This is one of the interviews I’ve been most excited to conduct and then share since launching this project.

Thanks for being a part of these interviews. It’s been fun to do, a little thing I’ve been talking about doing for so long. Whether it’s with someone I’ve known for a long time and we just get to chat about music like we always do, or learning new things, learning about new music.

It seems like you’re talking to your friends but then there’s this deep music knowledge. I was reading the interviews and I was like, "oh I should check this out, or look this up." Within the casual conversation there’s all this information.

I’ve done a few of these with friends I’ve known for two decades where music is a big part of our relationship, where we’ll just text each other songs or album art rather than actual words and messages. That’s kind of the thread of our relationship, so it’s fun to have these conversations — “remember that mixtape we made for that house party in Grade 10?” or whatever — and now that we’re adults, to see how our musical tastes have evolved. A lot of my friends have lived abroad so they have this new worldview — that’s fun as well.

That’s my new thing, I see music as a language. Before I saw it as a thing. When I go to a show, I look at the person and I’m like, “what are you trying to tell me? What’s your story?”

But it’s deep because you can do it through rhythms and through melodies and it’s a really complex language. That’s my new tip.

At the end of the day it’s just art as telling stories, right? And music is such a layered way of doing that where you get to give someone a message through sound, and rhythm, vibration, percussion, that people can dance to. When you see artwork it may give you a feeling, but you’re not dancing to artwork with other people. It’s a different interactivity.

It’s deep, it is a sharing thing. That’s part of one of my answers — connecting with people through music. That’s part of it, is your message. I find there’s a certain truth in it, too. If you try to make certain music that’s not really about you, it comes out weird. Or sometimes you might make music and think you’re a certain kind of person, but then your music might be a truer version of you that’s more honest. It’s really strange.

That’s really interesting, especially when you think about pop artists who appropriate something and people know, that doesn’t come off as authentic, or someone who’s trying a new genre or whatever. Whether people are experts or not, they know. It’s hard to — people have a really good bullshit filter, you know? And there’s so much truth in music that if you can’t do it right, even though it’s a human art form, it still feels wrong. I don’t know how to articulate that.

To me, it’s a kind of truth. It’s really weird stuff and it’s only stuff that I’ve been thinking about as I get older, and I’ve been doing music for a long time. People can pick up bullshit, but it’s very subtle. It’s a certain detail that people can hear in sound. I guess language is a big part of how we read people, so we are kind of tuned to sound — people’s inflections and things like that — so maybe that transfers into notes, textures.

Cool. Good segue into the questions…

What's your passion/hustle/profession?

I would say always searching for the perfect beat, that’s the main thing. Always searching for weird sounds. I collect synthesizers and drum machines in a search for auditory stimulation. My profession mostly is what I was saying earlier, connecting with people through music.

Do you think that’s something that you’ve always been drawn to or was there someone in your life who put you on to that?

When I was young watching music videos, I liked to show people cool songs, initially, before I had any technical training.

What were some of the earliest music videos you remember?

Funny ones, on MuchMusic. “Wild Wild West” was one, it was a rap version by Kool Mo Dee. Stiff, '80s. I didn't understand it, but I wanted other people to know about it. That was very important to me [laughs].

What kind of music helps you focus at work? This is an interesting question for you, I think, because work is music and music is work — you’re not listening to music while you’re making music, but how does that factor in?

This one I narrowed down to my work being traveling with music, so I actually would say Vivaldi. Because, at times where I was feeling a bit of social pressure or general performance pressure, on the plane I would listen to Vivaldi in the classical sections of the albums in the entertainment systems. And I found it would really help me clear my head if I was getting paranoid about situations or scared about certain situations. I felt like it calmed me down. So Vivaldi was the go-to for a while, on the plane.

Any particular — like a Sonata in C Major (I don’t know my Vivaldi so well)? Four Seasons, that’s Vivaldi.

It wasn't any specific one, I would just listen to whatever they had, but specifically Vivaldi, and it always worked. It mostly just focused me, mostly got me out of my head, if I felt I was getting stuck on something, or, you know, things that creep up with fatigue.

You just let the music take over.

Yeah. And also, I think it’s an advanced music compared to drum-driven music. It’s advanced melodic music that I don’t know everything about, so there’s more mystery to it.

Do you see yourself studying more classical, traditional music?

I don’t think so. Music that I’m studying is more based in the black church of America. I like music that is a bit more off. I find, sometimes, classical music is a bit too perfect.

Well, that’s what classical music is all about, right? Achieving proximity to god or godliness or perfection.

I like imperfect beauty in the chords. That's the kind of music that I study. You know there is some of that in classical.

I hear you, that — a minor chord with a 7th, or that edge, what you hear in blues and gospel —that’s the root of that.

What I always tell people that are scared of hip-hop, mumble rap, scared of all that black music being diminished, I say that the black church in America will always be the foundation. Music will always come out of that circle and excel. That's the safeguard. That will never sell out.

And it’s soul, soul absolutely at its core.

How about when you’re winding down?

My wind-down routine is YouTube playlists, but specifically producer playlists. And my main one is Madlib. I just do “Madlib playlist,” “Best of Madlib.” I always discover new things. He always has such a good catalogue. You know you can always discover new beats, new textures. I just lay in bed and just crush the YouTube playlists. One that’s always in the playlists is Madlib “Solitude” and I think it was also made into a song by Dudley Perkins. That one always creeps in, people always put that in the playlists. That's always my favourite, even just as a wind-down song in itself.

Working out?

I like more crushing 808 music, like trap, I really like Hudson Mohawke and Baauer. People that are doing electronic but with hip-hop sensibilities. Something with a bit more melody to it. Uplifting melodies with crushing drums, almost distorted drums. 808s. That's my walking-up-the-mountain music.

Cooking?

Cooking is more funk and soul. And my favourite from that genre is The Meters. It’s not super rare, it's not really a stuck-up kind of funk, but for me it's the hardest funk, it’s just my favourite. I think “Cissy Strut” is the one — let me double-check it, pull it up on YouTube to make sure. I just gotta get through this YouTube ad.

I’m surprised you’re not using a music service like Tidal or Spotify or something!

I’m really bad with that.

I don’t use Apple Music, I use Tidal right now and obviously Pandora for the radio, Spotify not really but sometimes, and then Soundcloud. And then I have all my music I’ve bought through Apple Music, I just don’t use their radio service.

Someone told me that Tidal has all the credits for production and players, I really like that. In the digital world it’s hard to come by.

That’s what I like about Tidal, how it gives credit to artists and the music makers, everyone around the recording artist. It’s also a nice discovery tool to be able to see who produced or wrote this song and then be able to look up what other tracks they did. I find there are artists I like but I’m generally more about following producers. Obviously there’s the big ones — everyone knows Quincy Jones, Pete Rock, J Dilla. I’m starting to find now that a lot of the music I listened to when I was younger, it’s all produced by the same people, all written by the same people, with the same session recording artists. Even Questlove, with his podcast on Pandora, he’s bringing these people in as his guests and they are telling these stories and you realize these are the guys who were really running the show back in the day.

You have a DJ state of mind when you do that. That’s how songs sound good together. Because you think it’s a different artist, but both tracks are made by Swizz Beats. It makes things gel.

I found it! Here’s the “Cissy Strut.” The funk and soul, to me, is just good living. Cooking is part of good living. It just meshes perfectly.

How about when you’re kickin’ it with friends? When you’re not the DJ but you get to choose the music.

Definitely Kaytranada all the way. Kaytranada is the best hangout music.

Right? That album. It’s so amazing. I can’t believe it. I’m so excited for his career. He’s so young. He’s just getting started. He’s just 0.0001% started.

Just getting started. Kaytranada took everything our generation loved and he put it all into one. I just think it's amazing. It creates a great mood when you're hanging out with people. And even within his music, some of it is harder, some of it is smooth, some of it is dance-y, but it still has this common thread of the music we grew up on. It’s just perfect for BBQs, just pre-drinking. I’m a big fan.

I know he’s touring a lot. Do you guys get to connect at all in Montréal?

Around the time when the “If” remix came out we talked briefly, we were pretty excited. We were playing a similar festival in Amsterdam, and I got busy, I couldn’t reach out. And then he got so huge, I didn’t want to bother him.

He’s so kind. When he and his brother Louis were in town here in SF earlier last year at Mezzanine we hit him up and they put us on guestlist for their show.

They’re just good for music. It just makes me happy. Every time they win, I win. That’s how I see it.

What’s your most memorable musical moment? This could be a live show or festival that really stuck with you, meeting a music icon, etc.

This one is Glastonbury, being a backup DJ for Azealia [Banks] and getting to build the set with this artist called Lil Internet. That was memorable because it was a lot of pressure, a lot of people, the crowds.

How many people go to Glastonbury, like how many tens of thousands of people? I remember when they would broadcast the festival on MuchMusic back in the day and it was just a sea of people for miles and miles.

It must be sixty to eighty thousand, I think, but that seems crazy. I think we performed in front of thirty thousand people. That seems crazy to think of.

That’s like a huge hockey arena or football stadium.

That's the thing, just looking back on it. Sometimes I look back and watch YouTube videos of our shows and it’s just crazy. That one is just crazy, it looks crazy.

What a trip. Were you super nervous or did you have moment of calm?

Super nervous. These are the shows where you can't make any mistakes. You have to be perfect because there's a huge team behind shows like that, so you have to do your part and you have to do it perfect. It was good, I think it was a successful show. Everything came together. Her costumes were amazing, her visuals were amazing, edits were really good. My little scratch routine worked really well. It was just really good synergy even thought it was under a lot of pressure, it was my proudest moment.

Favourite love song? Slow jam? Between the sheets track?

Favorite love song is DJ Rogers "Faithful.” It’s like gospel, soul. Kanye sampled it for Common's "Faithful" off the Be album. I end my DJ sets with that song. It’s just a beautiful song.

You need to hype up the crowd at a house party real quick. What do you put on next?

For this one I had to go to my mentor, Jorun, from Halifax. He taught me all about funk and breaks. There was a time when I used to play a lot of his party records and edits, he remakes funk, breaks. He’s quite famous for remaking hip-hop instrumentals. He puts his music out on 45s, he’s known as a 45 DJ. One of his first 45s was called Jorun's Way. He became famous from another edit I used to play called Release Your Champ. [DJ] Jazzy Jeff used it on the first Summertime mixtape. That was really cool to see one of my mentors getting a tip of the hat from someone as big as Jazzy Jeff.

One of his more recent 45s is the James Brown Funky Drummer edit. It's online and they do small releases, it's a bit of a niche market. If you don't buy it right away you have to go onto Discogs, they sell pretty quickly. He has a lot of allies, like Questlove. The thing is he's one of their peers. He understands the funk like they understand the funk. They’ve got to take care of each other.

There’s a brain trust with that music.

In the party, if you want to get it going, you got to go to quality. Jo’s really put his time in and earned it. You can't fake the funk. Jo's the truth. When you play one of his edits, you know it’s gonna work.

What’s he up to these days?

He DJs 45s, he mostly remakes hip-hop instrumentals and releases short-run 45s. He has a great YouTube channel with everything, all his edits. He has a mixtape that he releases regularly called “Funkbox” and that’s where he puts all of his edits together.

If you were stranded on a desert island with only one album, which would it be?

I would have to go with Ahmad Jamal with some jazz, and the album is called The Awakening. I learned about this album through a Nas sample off "The World Is Yours." The piano, it’s amazing. Even though it’s in such a short part of the song, but the whole song is amazing. That whole album, it’s been sampled a lot. It’s just beautiful, dark jazz. Again, it has a good life essence to it — hopeful, but dark music. That's the kind of music I’m drawn to. I think he's from Pittsburg. I love all his chords, all the hip-hop songs that have sampled him, I love. He's just a recurring figure, as I dig and as I discover jazz. I always come back to Ahmad Jamal.

Dinner with any artist, dead or alive. They're paying. Whom do you choose?

For this one, I kind of cheated. I actually had a dinner with MACHINEDRUM and Lil Internet back in the day in London. It might have been a year before Glastonbury. This was the first time that I had been around musicians that were also philosophers. I kind of had a dinner with two of the people I looked up to and they opened up my mind to adding artistry and philosophy to music to give it greater depth. That’s something as a club DJ I hadn't really been exposed to. DJing and artistry to me was much more blue collar, was much more to please the crowd.

What are some of the lessons they shared with you that you’ve taken to your practice as you’re making beats?

They had a lot of influences that were outside of their genre. They were talking about classical composers who had made the darkest music ever. Lil Internet taught me about prison reform. These are all things I hadn't thought about before and I think these are things that show up in their music indirectly, but gives their music extra depth.

If the artist themselves is more interested in things and has a wider world view, they are going to pull that into their music, whether it’s implicit or explicit, and that will come through in the sound.

It’s, I think, in some ways — some people I meet that have that extra depth, they went to art school or have that deeper upbringing. For me, I didn’t really have that. For a while I was a bit ashamed to explore that, just really letting go and just being an artist. I think being around them gave me more confidence to do that. It made it feel okay, to really go deeper.

Best format? Cassette tape, CD, iPod, Vinyl, etc.

I think vinyl is the best, because it's the most human. You can touch it, play along, it's very physical. You can see the grooves, you can manipulate it. There's a kind of permanence with it. There's a huge culture around it, just from collectors. There's a certain depth. Sometimes I have conversations with this guy Eduardo who runs Sonorama. And because I’m into vinyl I’m able to connect with him and have a direct lineage into knowledge, a window into his world, someone who's been collecting since maybe the '60s. Because I choose to collect vinyl, I get a stamp of approval and it opens up a door into his knowledge or to even just his perspective on music, it’s neat.

It’s like your membership card to show “hey, I am serious about this.” Come on in, secret club.

It’s like a club. Vinyl can cost a lot of money over time but I think people collect it mostly to be part of a group. It gives you a little bit of an identity.

How big is your vinyl collection now?

I’m not really sure. Just maybe a couple thousand. I don't have like five thousand, but maybe, I don't know. It's a wall. It’s all at home. I had some purges. Every time i move I try to purge a little bit. It’s difficult. DJing has some hoarding qualities to it [laughs].

What’s the most prized album/mixtape/musical memento you own? Your home is on fire and this is the only thing you can grab before it all burns down. (Sorry, that one’s grim.)

I have a fire crate, just in case there's a fire, I grab this one crate. That’s just the way I am. I'm a worrier sometimes. Not a warrior, a worrier. The album is by the Sidewinders and the album is called Flatfoot Hustlin’. What it is is one record, it’s a Halifax funk record I found when I lived there, I actually found it very early in my digging adventures. There was nothing about it on the internet, no one knew anything about it. Over time, it's been reissued, and it's become part of those very rare records to find. Mostly I like it because it's from where I was living, it’s from Halifax, it was recorded in Halifax, and it’s super funky. It’s good. I just recommend it. Also, my copy is signed by the band, which is really cool. I never met them, I found it that way. I don’t know where exactly they’re from, I think some people have written articles but I could never find them.

Last question. This is a bonus question. What's your go-to karaoke jam?

I would say “Sweet Dreams” by the Eurythmics.

Annie Lennox? Nice! Not the Marilyn Manson version…?

You know what? Both versions are good with me. I just love the lyrics, I love the message, I love the idea of how we spin our reality around ourselves, the stories we tell ourselves about who we are. To me it's a deep song, but it's still super fun. You can sing it as a party song but then it has this underlying humanity to it, I guess.

I think that goes back to what you were saying earlier about artists being philosophers, or just having a wider world view, whether that’s being politically minded, being “woke,” or however you want to put it. That translates into the lyrics and the qualities of the sound and even if it’s just a fun party song, those lyrics may speak to the other people who are also more aware and interested in that.

There can be levels. That song to me is really, really good.

Merçi, Antoine!

“A Philosopher’s Fire Crate” Track Listing

Kool Mo Dee. “Wild Wild West.” The Greatest Hits, Zomba Recording LLC, 1993.
The Eurythmics. “Sweet Dreams (Are Made Of This).” Sweet Dreams (Are Made Of This), SONY BMG MUSIC ENTERTAINMENT (GERMANY) GmbH, 2005.
The Meters. “Cissy Strut.” The Meters, Josie, 1969.
James Brown. "Funky Drummer (Bonus Beat Reprise)." In The Jungle Groove, Polydor Records, 1986.
Kaytranada, River Tiber. "Vivid Dreams." 99.9%, XL Recordings Limited, 2016.
UGK (Underground Kingz), OutKast. “International Players’ Album (I Choose You).” UGK (Underground Kingz), 2006 Zomba Recording LLC.
D.J. Rogers "Faithful." It's Good To Be Alive, RCA Records, a division of Sony Music Entertainment, 1975.
Common. “Faithful.” Be, Geffen Records, 2005.
The Ahmad Jamal Trio. "I Love Music." The Awakening, Impulse Records, 1970.*
Nas. "The World Is Yours." llmatic, Columbia Records, a division of Sony Music Entertainment, 1994.
Mos Def. “Miss Fat Booty." Black On Both Sides, Rawkus Entertainment LLC, 1999.
Azealia Banks. "Yung Rapunxel (produced by Lil Internet)." Broke With Expensive Taste, Azealia Banks / Prospect Park, 2014.
Hudson Mohawke. "Very First Breath (feat. Irfane)." Very First Breath, Warp Records Limited, 2015.

*Listen for the Nas sample from "The World Is Yours" from 5:09-5:12.

For more DJ Cosmo, check out his Soundcloud.